In this conversation, Stephan Livera and Kane McGukin discuss the evolving landscape of Bitcoin treasury companies, exploring the risks, potential failures, and the role of Bitcoin in financial services. They explore the dynamics of equity versus preferred shares, the importance of education in Bitcoin investments, and the impact of market volatility on investor behavior. The discussion highlights the need for a deeper understanding of the financial instruments associated with Bitcoin and the potential for treasury companies to bridge the gap between traditional finance and the Bitcoin ecosystem.Takeaways????Kane expresses skepticism about the financial engineering of treasury companies.????The risks associated with equity dilution in treasury companies are significant.????Bitcoin's role in financial services is evolving, with treasury companies acting as a bridge.????Investors need to understand the difference between equity and preferred shares in treasury companies.????Market dynamics can lead to volatility in treasury company investments.????Education is crucial for investors to navigate the complexities of Bitcoin and treasury companies.????Timing and market conditions significantly impact investment outcomes in treasury companies.????The future of Bitcoin and treasury companies is intertwined with regulatory developments.????Investors should be cautious of the hype surrounding treasury companies.????The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding the underlying assets and their value. Timestamps:(00:00) - Intro(02:16) - Kane’s skepticism around BTCTCs(05:37) - What are the possible risks to consider for a BTCTC?(09:53) - Strategy orange-pilled retail investors through the success of $MSTR(12:13) - How do Auction Rate Securities work?; Comparing with Strategy's $STRC(21:51) - What is your time horizon for Bitcoin & BTCTCs?(23:38) - Sponsors(29:10) - Does the retail crowd understand Bitcoin? Are BTCTCs a good route for Bitcoin exposure?(41:31) - Understanding the risks in Bitcoin Treasury Companies(46:14) - Long term perspectives on Bitcoin and BTCTCs; The importance of NgU(51:14) - Bitcoin’s future ft. Power Law; Leveraging equity in Bitcoin investments(1:00:12) - Innovations in Bitcoin Financial Products; The importance of Bitcoin education through BTCTCs(1:13:16) - Closing thoughts Links: https://kanemcgukin.substack.com/ https://x.com/kanemcgukinSponsors:Bold BitcoinCoinKite.com (code LIVERA)Stephan Livera links:Follow me on X: @stephanliveraSubscribe to the podcastSubscribe to Substack