Some governors, led by J-B Pritzker of Illinois and Jared Polis in Colorado, are trying to strengthen their own state-level institutions to protect against the promised retribution of President Trump. Colorado Governor Jared Polis joins Christiane from Boulder. Also on today's show: former Ukrainian Defense Minister Andriy Zagorodnyuk; James Beard Award-winning Chef Bryant Terry, author of "Black Food" Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices